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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:44 am 
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jwb
if by small subset of the group you mean the 12% of the membership who was at the meeting, and the additional 22% of the membership who's opinions i've included in that consensus opinion then yes. we have not asked everyone about it, but when folks have sat and chatted about want's and needs, everyone's been on board +/- a little bit with this plan.

suggesting that we ignore a third of the community does NOT sit well with me, and is distinctly unexcellent.

those at the meeting were all interested in getting everyone's input, and getting what works best for the community. it's NOT going to be perfect for everyone, prolly not for anyone, but should end up being awesome for most, and acceptable to the rest.

this is not MY plan, it's what a group of people have come up with, and what i'm taking the time to tell everyone who wasn't there about. just because i've announced something does not make it mine.

i am not keeping them "to myself" as you put it, the board has access, however the data is not released yet, because the majority of the time i've been trying to finish processing them to remove personally identifiable information from them has been taken up by last minute changes to the annual meeting, and the lease. personally, in processing the data i've moved the easily identifiable stuff (emails) out of the data i'm working on so i don't see folks opinions, however there are still comments that give things away, and i'm not ok with giving that out. i've told you all of this before several times and you continue to address this in a passive aggressive negative manner rather than a positive one, also unexcellent.

i know you've offered to help, what i need at the moment on it is how to flip data sets from rows to columns in openoffice (make column a into row 1, etc), and enough time to write up a report. most of the raw data will be released by sections with the report.

this was the FIRST meeting, to get some notions together, and a plan for going forward, not to etch in stone where every nut and bolt will go. your comments are noted to be added to the discussion.

do you mean darkroom too, or just studio space? that would be ideal in the basement where there's much less dust, and you can control lighting more. keep in mind that we as a non-profit can not be supporting businesses.


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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:44 am 
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otto,
yes, that's why i'd love to get the plotter running, so we can have a big one to put post-its on. i'm hoping to get into the shop this afternoon, and i'll whiteboard it up not to scale. personally i've spoken to 19 folks about the overall plan including people who mostly use wood, metal, crafts, and electronics, new members and old members.


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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:45 am 
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mcsteve,
no one's mentioned the bench yet, which is odd, but i agree it's not in an ideal location. it's been mentioned that we prolly do not want soldering in the front office due to lead fumes.

yes, it should allow wood tools to be located a more safe and useful distance from each other, as things firm up more, tool placement with workign clearances will be incorporated.

the intent of this was to get a plan up and fleshed out enough to present to everyone after the formal portion of the annual meeting to get a little more input, and then go forward.


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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:47 am 
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james,

thanks for you input last night, and commitment to help with this, it's really important that new as well as longstanding voices be heard in this, it's not any one person's shop, it's for all of us, and we need to figure out how we can all share the space together and get the most out of it.


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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:03 am 
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I started writing this post before metis replied here, so I hope it is mostly still appropriate to where we're at here.

I agree with most of what's been said here. We do need to be careful how we phrase things. This goes for everyone. If things start sounding like personal attacks, we're not making progress, we're just making noise.

I will say that since metis is frequently the "face" of the board, it would be nice if he could make an effort to clarify who he is speaking for in any given statement, and whether that statement is "official" or a suggestion/work-in-progress. I get the impression, and I could be wrong about this, that he has a style of communication which probably sounds a little different in his head, than it does to us receiving it. I really hope that doesn't come off as insulting, because it is absolutely not meant to be. I have the same problem occasionally myself.

I feel somewhat silly for having to say this, but a large part of "being excellent to each other" is speaking to people in a manner we would wish to be spoken to. I know there's a lot of frustration right now, and it comes out in the words and phrasing used on all sides. As someone who is usually an outsider to the issues at hand, I have often been reading some of these posts and saying "whoa, that was nasty!" Let's remember too that this a public forum, and to some extent everything said here becomes a part of our public image. If we all just take a few moments to read what we've written before posting it, maybe we can tone it down a bit, filter out the things that might be unnecessarily negative, and focus on the actual issues at hand. Arguing accomplishes nothing, we need to keep a decent dialog going and figure out how to make all of our respective ideas work together as optimally as possible.

That said, addressing the more recent posts; yes, I think the electronics bench should be somewhere else, and I have been thinking for a while that we should have some fume extraction. I'm willing to improvise a simple exhaust system if we can vent it outside, or at least through a filter and into a more open area.

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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:12 am 
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mcsteve, thanks, and i've said this before but it bears repeating point out that while i am on the board, i am also a member. the space planning committee is very informal and my serving on it, and doing some facilitating for it is not part of my work as a board member.

i'm doing it because i have done space planning and manages shops professionally, so i'm familiar with a number of the hurdles, and want to make sure that we're getting things more right for more uses the first time, so that i and everyone else can use the space more and fret about lack of tool clearance, or awkward setups less often.


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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:24 am 
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Michael, I appreciate the knowledge and energy you've devoted to the hackerspace. I do think, however, that you need to make it more clear when you are speaking as a board member regarding fundraising matters, which is your elected purview, and when you're stating your opinion as a member. Sometime you use the same voice and style for both and it can be confusing.

My objections to your space planning announcement were due to that very phenomenon, and I think you might better have put in a disclaimer that the vision you presented was only one of several legitimate configurations. The "long story short, everyone is pretty much on board" statement seemed to suggest that your plan was the only one.

For my part, I wasn't suggesting that the "space-planning committee" shouldn't have a say, but that people shouldn't feel excluded by not being at that meeting, because the process for designing the new space was not yet complete.

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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:31 am 
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Re: the survey

Quote:
i am not keeping them "to myself" as you put it, the board has access, however the data is not released yet, because the majority of the time i've been trying to finish processing them to remove personally identifiable information from them has been taken up by last minute changes to the annual meeting, and the lease. personally, in processing the data i've moved the easily identifiable stuff (emails) out of the data i'm working on so i don't see folks opinions, however there are still comments that give things away, and i'm not ok with giving that out. i've told you all of this before several times and you continue to address this in a passive aggressive negative manner rather than a positive one, also unexcellent.

i know you've offered to help, what i need at the moment on it is how to flip data sets from rows to columns in openoffice (make column a into row 1, etc), and enough time to write up a report. most of the raw data will be released by sections with the report.


I'll make a deal with you, I'll stop bringing it up if you'll either commit to a delivery date or deputize someone who you trust not to reveal members' email addresses, which is evidently not me. Michael, we are in a time of transition and you can't expect members to make decisions without having all the data.

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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:42 am 
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Metis, have you tried this? http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=44571

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 Post subject: Re: space planning committee timing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:00 pm 
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jwb,

one more time THIS IS NOT MY PLAN as you referred to it as again, it is the consensus that many folks have reached, and i'm the member taking the time to tell folks who weren't there about it. i was reporting what discussions with a lot of people have come to and what all of us at the meeting agreed upon, as requested by another member who wasn't there. i stated that everyone is in general agreement of the big list, and that some thing still need to be sorted. that is all true. i'm sorry if you read into it context that wasn't there.

i agree that official board statements can be a little confusing, but outside of the board update thread and annual meeting thread, i've been pretty explicit when something is standing policy or board related. if i don't say that, you can probably assume it's just me.

Quote:
...we probably ought to ignore some, most, or all of these suggestions.

you explicitly stated that we should ignore and thereby exclude other members opinions, specifically those who have to now voiced their concerns. whether mine, yours or any other member's, that's not cool.

if that is not what you meant, it is what you communicated.

i'm stepping away from this thread for a few hours. (edited a bit for clarity)


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