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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:58 am 
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smittex wrote:
Just wanted to let you know what we do with the laser at DMS...
Good stuff! Thanks Smittex!

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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:15 pm 
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You definitely need to charge money for its use or else it will certainly be abused.

Signed,

Owner of abused equipment stored at the hack factory


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:22 pm 
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Location: downtown Saint Paul
Did anyone ever come up with a plan for that, Nick?

i.e. buy your own tips or whatever?

Let me know, making sure the nice stuff gets taken care of is a big deal.

Riley

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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:35 pm 
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I think the point is that he would be using it in a commercial capacity, with intent on selling for profit. We are (shooting for?) nonprofit status. Meaning it would be a conflict of some sort (not a lawer) for us to let him run it for free. Or did I read the thread wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:45 pm 
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Pretty much the latter. There's thread content drift from another thread about the plasma cutter and abuse, the legalities of the laser cutter arrangement are set.

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:29 am 
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The non-profit status is a weird one. Non-profits can actually make a profit, and many do, the law basically dictates how the profit is used, and in our case if we have profits we will invest in equipment or infrastructure....

As far as operating a equipment that is being used as to make a profit, at the Hack Factory, this is acceptable.
People can make electronic kit and then later on sell them.
People can be compensated for teaching a class.
People can make widgets and sell them.
People can do work in the space.

The biggest thing people can't do is use the potential 501c3 status for a tax haven, that will not work.

Also there will need to be a line drawn if the equipment turns into a production of some sort that cuts other people out from using the tools, these type of circumstances will need to be discussed and figured out by the board if they come up.

With the laser cutter, people can make a profit from using it. Adam can be compensated for the use of his tool as well. Adam cannot use the Hack Factory's potential 501c3 status for some sort of tax relief, since it will be his tool. That said if the space eventually buys one then we can use our status to aid in the purchase.

This is my understanding of how things work out.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:44 pm 
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edited wrong thread


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:51 pm 
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Location: NE Minneapolis
paul, that's +/- correct.

it comes down to 1 big thing legally, and another in terms of being excellent.

legally: we can't provide service to a business at a discount that would in effect be us supporting them. so on the cutter, if it were going to consume a lot of electricity, (which it's not, but a plasma cutter or mill might) then we'd need to be able to document that we're billing for it to protect our status, and adam from audit fiasco. a nominal fee for it's use is us compensating him for wear and tear on it, and ~includes some rental fee for the few sq feet offset by the awesomeness of it being there, and electricity use.

excellently: making a profit in the space is cool as long as you are respectful of everyone else. i.e. using materials donated to the community for the majority of your stuff is you personally in effect selling community supplies for your own profit- not cool. were you to say donate back appropriate amounts (say +/- what retail would have been for the wood/scanner parts/gas, etc) then you're contributing back to the community, but that wouldn't be tax deductible and we'd prolly have to report sales tax on it. likewise, if you're monopolizing a tool, or space, or causing undue wear on something like a saw blade or abrasive wheel, you are using something up that 70 other members "own" for your own profit.

it comes back to the copier at work scenario. if you're gonna print off a few sheets, no biggie, if you're gonna print out war and peace, that's fine if you do it at non-peak hours and bring in your own paper, but if you're gonna start binding pamphlets and selling them, you should buy your own copier/printer.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Location: downtown Saint Paul
Is there a happy ending to this that ends up with the laser cutter in the space?

any laser cutter at all?

Riley

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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:39 am 
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I spent most of my free time this summer finding a new day job, and whatever extra I had I spent on a project commitment that ended up taking between 10 and 100 times as much work as I predicted.

The funds ended up being drained for that "project committment," so I'll have to wait for some more invoices to come in and then I'll see where I'm at.

The Full Spectrum Engineering lasers are only ~$2k, and they do a great job if you have any sort of active control over the water temperature that you cool the laser with. Most of the variability people complain about online is from the laser tube changing temperatures drastically during a run. I don't know where the Twin Cities Maker finances are at, but at 100 members, that's ~$20 per member to own a laser cutter.

Adam Wolf


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