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 Post subject: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:25 am
Posts: 78
I, or my company, will be very likely purchasing a 40W laser cutter within the next few weeks.

I would be willing to keep it at the Hack Factory and let it be used by trained folks.

However, I need to make sure the following things are ok:

* It remains my property.
* I am able to use it to make things for my business.
* I would likely like to collect some money in exchange for time on the laser, to pay for the eventual, inevitable, expensive laser replacement.

Does anyone see any issues with this?


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:14 am
Posts: 657
Location: downtown Saint Paul
I don't see any problem with any of this.

As with all loaned tools, you can, of course, retain ownership and control.

As it's your tool, rather than the space, I don't see any way at all that anyone could say the space is supporting your business. We all know you've got space and juice to run it, so even that argument would be moot.

The benefit of having it at the space would be awesome.

In the interest of it being usable by all, including broke ass me, I'd be interested in having the org pay whatever kind of fee you're talking about, rather than individuals feeding a kitty. (no idea how you saw that working one way or the other)

Just so I can ponder, what's the cost of a replacement laser, what's the lifetime in hours on the current laser, and how much of the rep. cost were you hoping to recoup?

If we get numbers and time and percentage us vs. you paying for a new laser, the math should just kind of come together.

I'm really excited, there's a lot of stuff I could do with a laser cutter, and I'll do anything I can to help make this happen.

Riley

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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:41 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Northwest Burbs
I think this would be awesome to have access to a unit this would present a quick and cost effective option to the group.

I do have two concerns but both can be mitigated. First is that there is not currently a way to control access to a specific machine, so if something happens when nobody is there, the group is on the hook for repairs / replacement.

The second is a legal issue, would this risk our status by having a for profit function / machine in the space? I think that we can get around this by a sublease of $1 or offset by cost of member use, but it should be checked out.

Thanks Adam for considering this option, as it would be a great Key resource to have about.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:06 am
Posts: 1219
Location: NE Minneapolis
adam, that would be awesome, and i don't see any big issues, but a few minor ones that should be easy to overcome.

we pay (indirectly) for our electricity, and that's the big (but not really huge overall, i assume all in it's not pulling 1.5K in operation) expense on cutters, so in that sense we'd be supporting your use of it commercially. my thought is that charging for use (even as an offset for wear on a long term part) could also be supporting your commercial property. while both of those aren't really huge, the perception of support is bad from a non-profit standpoint. at the same time we'd be getting access to an awesome piece of equipment, and presumably you'd be getting some r&d as folks keep a communal log of what wattage to zap what at.

i have *no* clue what the costs for a new zapper, how many hours of use they survive or the total wattage consumed when in operation. it could well be that replacement cost per minute of zapping is a penny, and it uses 5c of electricity/min, or vice versa.

depending on relative value back and forth we could even look at something like intermittent sponsorship status (i.e. every few months your logo up on our site)

i guess what i'm getting at is it's very doable, but we need to make sure that things land more on the side of you as a member being awesome to us than us offsetting your business costs. does that make sense? shoot me an email offline, or we can continue to ponder here, or catchup at the shop some evening.

all that said, are you getting the one with the rotary axis too? being able to zap round things would be even more amazingly awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:06 am
Posts: 1219
Location: NE Minneapolis
oh! one more thing (or a few)

how big is it? (footprint)
are you getting the air cleaner with it, or would it need ventilation?
i presume it want's to be in a non-dusty environment right?

pondering things for the space planing folks to keep on radar. if it is huge heavy and needs to come in from the dock, it'd want an enclosure in the shop, but if it's man portable and cant' ever see dust but needs ventilation it may want to be in the basement, that kinda thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Posts: 861
@adam, great idea, hope it happens and thanks if you do end up bring it to the factory.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:31 am 
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Location: NE Minneapolis
adam, judeling and i chatted a bit last night. it sounds like things are a go, it'll tentatively go in the basement due to dust (bad for mirrors, basement is clean) fumes (it produces and can vent out existing vents down there) and noise concerns, and prolly get a coin operation slot to cover the wear on the laser. at ~ a penny a minute it'll cover wear and tear, and not be making more than would be offset by it's electric needs, so it's a win/win.


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:54 pm 
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I think that charging adams tool electricity is a bit of a odd request, what other tools that consume electricity are required to have a tariff?

I understand that it might cost a bit, but so does running the sound system, and the lights, and the saws. So I think the better way is for our money dues goes to cover the electricity of the whole space, but I am open to input if the laser is consuming so much.

It's just a 40w laser right?


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:47 am
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Location: Minneapolis
I was going to say the same thing. So the plasma cutter and arc welders get free electricity but we have to pay for the laser cutter's juice?

Also, the laser cutter will actually get us tons of members since it's a high-ticket tool that most people can't afford, so it would benefit us to give it a home.

If Adam wants to charge to offset consumables (e.g., the laser emitter has a limited lifespan) that's fine, but we should pay for the electricity.

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 Post subject: Re: Laser Cutter
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:03 pm 
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if this math is right
(5 dollars is going to cover 500 hours? 20 days of continuous use?)
Seems odd to be asking for the electricity.


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